It had a really solid middle.

Yeah, for the most part. There were a lot of things that seemed really rushed.

We were supposed to take a lot of things on faith.

I went into this movie knowing that these days, movies are made with the knowledge that they’re going to release a DVD eventually, so I’m willing to bet there was a lot that was cut that will be on the DVD.

The extended version of SPIDERMAN 3, now.

Originally Sam Raimi wasn’t planning to use Venom in this one, but he was pushed into doing it, probably because the producers thought it wouldn’t be a strong enough film if all they did was Sandman and a re-ocurring Green Goblin.

The assumption here is what, that the first one was weak because it only had the one villain?

The first one was still a good solid movie because it was all about him becoming Spiderman, learning to deal with his powers and such. The second one, I think, was a superior film over the first one because it just… I mean, there are a few things that hold it back in some storytelling areas, but the character development was really good in that one, and the cinematics were amazing.

I have to disagree for the single reason of the last five minutes.

The last five minutes?

Well, when I say the last five minutes I mean the last fifteen minutes. They had four endings in the movie! The first one was the great big dramatic one, where he beat the bad guy and she found out he was spiderman. The second ending was her running out on the wedding, like we all knew she was going to do, and it wasn’t that dramatic.

I don’t think it was supposed to be dramatic. It was just there to show you that it did indeed happen. I didn’t have a problem with it.

Yeah, but even after that they kept going, with ending number three, “Go get’em, Tiger.” But wait, there’s more, let’s follow Harry around his mansion-apartment for a few minutes, and time it like there’s still drama to be juiced from the movie! This one did a lot better with the last five minutes, but the first one had the best of the endings.

Yes, of the endings the first one was the best.

And the thing about a movie is, you can sit there totally entertained throughout the whole thing, but if the ending somehow fails to deliver, you feel cheated, because you’ve invested your time into this movie, into the ending, and you’ve enjoyed investing your time until they cut the narrative rope and let you fall just short of solid ground. That’s why I think that the second one’s ending is inferior. Now, the third one did a lot better with condensing, however they did lay it on a little thick.

Well, they wasted a lot of time with song and dance.

Literally.

Not really what you’re looking for in a SPIDERMAN movie.

No, I don’t need to see the scene in which he dances, the scene in which he dazzles them all.

The bar scene was kind of amusing, but it was a little bit more than it needed to be.

Oh yeah, more than it needed to be. I’m agreeing with you. We’re in agreement on this. It was more than it needed to be. You know, in this one they had almost the right number of endings. Just one too many.

The Sandman thing?

Actually, I’m referring to the last little bar scene, where she’s singing, of all things, I’m through with Love!? Come on! That was a little much. It’s like they’re not trusting their audience to get it, but we all knew it was happening at that point. It doesn’t matter if you’re a fan of the series, it doesn’t matter if you know what ultimately happens…

It doesn’t matter if this is the only one of these you’ve seen, you should get it.

The Sandman, though, didn’t have enough time. He was a nobody villain.

There was a lot more they could have done. Or alternatively, they could have actually used him as a nobody villain and had him appear and then end quickly.

I would have been fine with that!

Either go all out with it, or just introduce him and kill him off as an introductory story device. Originally, because of the number of scenes they showed in the previews with Sandman in them, I thought that might have been all there was in the movie. And you know what? It almost was, just because of all the time they wasted with non-action stuff.

And then they decided to bring him back for what? A great big action scene at the end, and then we’re supposed to feel something for him. Laying it on a little thick. That’s where they started laying it on a little thick, with him after the action scene. That’s where it started. Didn’t stop there. Harry’s motivations? Everybody who’s seen the last movie or two understands Harry’s motivations. And then his… developing motivations, I’ll say, to avoid creating a spoiler, were just a little too quick. I’m sorry, but we don’t want to take that on faith.

Yeah, with the characters of Harry and Norman Osborne, there’s so much too them that instead of forgoing the first bit of his storyline in the movie, they could have showed more of the conflict within himself until a breaking point, instead of making it all go away and then come back.

And the going away part was hard to take, too. Pretty cheesy.

I was thinking it was an act.

Me too! I was surprised when it came back, because I thought it had been there the whole time.

I enjoyed Eddie Brock, though. But they should have done more with him.

Oh yes, in order to have a character like that, a character who walks into a church and says what he says…

I didn’t expect him to say that. I was expecting a cheesy redemption storyline.

It would have been on par with the rest of the movie’s plot devices.

But he kneels down and says that, and I thought, That’s actually really cool.

It was really cool, but it was one more motivation we were just supposed to take on faith.

That scene would have had a lot more impact if they’d developed his character a lot more before that.

If they’d had him actively out in the world, competing with Parker, if you saw the two of them more often, angling for shots.

That movie should have been made differently. It should have been two movies. Probably the way Sam Raimi originally intended it, before the producers decided to shove venom down his throat.

In the absence of Tylor, I’m going to share one of his points, that he has merely from watching the previews, and I really must agree: Venom had raised webbing.

It didn’t bug me.

He was dressed like Spiderman! Eddie Brock dressed up like Spiderman, I was going to allow that for the first little while, and then I started thinking. Is Eddie Brock going to take the form of the man he hates most in the world?

I figured it originally grabbed onto Spiderman and took on the shape of his costume, and just stuck with it because it was what it knew as human form.

Okay, now you’re volunteering too much on faith.

They could have made a new costume instead of just a black version of the old one, but… meh. I just don’t have a problem with it.

Here’s something I don’t think is really a spoiler: I honestly believed, at the end of the last movie, that they were going to do Venom in the third. Why did I believe that? Because of the astronaut that she was about to marry.

They could have used that. I’m sure a lot of people thought that.

We’re right for the wrong reasons? I can’t stand it when that happens in a way that I can’t buy.

Topher Grace did a very good job. I actually think he would have made a better spiderman than Toby McGuire, but he did take the Eddie Brock role just beautifully.

Talented actor. When I saw him in THAT 70’s SHOW I didn’t really have an idea of how good an actor he could be, because when you see someone playing just one part, you don’t know if that’s what they’ll play in every other part.

But he was also in… What was that other movie called?

I don’t know what movie you’re talking about.

I think I watched it with you.

What was it about?

I don’t remember.

You don’t know what it was about, you don’t know what it was called, do you remember anything else about it?

It was a forgettable movie.

Apparently. SPIDERMAN 3 was alright, though. And by that I mean SPIDERMAN 3 & 4 were alright. I would like to have seen just SPIDERMAN 3, but they didn’t give us that option.

I just have to add that they spent so much time on the personal lives of the hero and the love interest, that I think they forgot a key element in this type of movie. Spiderman wouldn’t be Spiderman without enemies to fight. We kind of want to know what his enemies are doing, and not have them just pop up every now and then. If I wanted to see that, I could just watch the television series, where I wouldn’t mind going 24 hours between villains. But in this movie, there were long stretches where, as far as we knew, all the villains were vanquished, and nobody was actually active.

Yeah, in the first two, the villain was the star. And when he was defeated in each scene, he didn’t leave you thinking he was defeated. In the first fight scene with the Green Goblin in the first movie, he flies away screaming, We’ll meet again, Spiderman!

Yes! Give me classic. That’s why people love the first one. It’s why I think the first one is carrying the series, at this point.

I don’t know if I’m disappointed or glad that they didn’t use the We are Venom line in this movie. I mean, I don’t know that I’d trust them to use it at a good spot. It would have been perfect if it had been when he introduced himself to Sandman.

And yet. So there was a two-bit thug who took up a lot of screen time, took it away from people who deserved it. And now I’m done.

You were right, though, it had a very solid middle.

No I wasn’t. No it didn’t.